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Business Tax

How could provisional tax be improved?

Provisional tax is the mechanism by which most businesses pay tax during the year.  The exact amount of tax to pay for an income year can only be determined after the year has ended.  The provisional tax rules, however, are designed to ensure that tax is paid during the year, rather than at the end. 

For example, the calculation and payment of business income tax could be based more on when income is earned during the year – much like a PAYE for business.  This has the potential to simplify the calculation of provisional tax, create more certainty for businesses, and better reflect cashflow.  Alternatively, a simplified system where provisional tax payments are based on another proxy (for example, a percentage tailored on a business’s turnover) could also be investigated.

How important is improving the provisional tax rules in reducing compliance costs for business?  Are there other more important issues the Government should be focusing on instead, or as well?

The Government seeks feedback on ideas for more effective, practical and simple methods of calculating and paying provisional tax. How could provisional tax be better aligned to other business processes?

Comments

Margaret Ingleton
I think provisional tax should remain as it is. In common with many industries, we experience months where profits are replaced by losses. Unless the IRD is also going to refund money monthly, then the risk is that businesses with uneven cashflow will be disadvantaged.

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1 year ago
michael Keat
GST returns are a good way of determining a business profitability, tax should be calculated at the gst time with an adjustment at the end of year without a penalty if the correct amount is paid at gst payment time.

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1 year ago
Jackie Dempster
Michael Keat.....I have to strongly disagree with your statement that GST is a good way of determining business profitability!!! GST returns do not have non-GST business costs like wages, interest, capital repayments etc. These are all legitimate business costs that do not show up on a GST return. All business income derived from the supply of goods and services attracts GST but not all costs are deductible so your profitability theory showing up in GST returns is wrong. GST is actually a hidden tax on labour.....while it is cleverly designed to not show directly on wages/salary payments....GST is added to all charge out rates like hourly rates, or inbuilt into cost of product etc. E.g. A plumbers business charge-out hourly rate is $60 + GST......the plumbing business then pays their employee say $30 gross per hour (less PAYE etc). The GST shows up on the plumbing total income box and the cost of the labour does not appear in the expenses column anywhere on any GST return. ....As I have stated GST is nothing more than a tax on labour.

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1 year ago
Philip
I agree with the above comment. With my business there is quite a significant depreciation claimed each year and paying provisional tax on GST income would result in a significant tax overpayment not to mention the drain on the cash flow.

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1 year ago
Graeme M
Agree with Jackie Dempster. I have wondered what the effect would be if wages were INCLUDED in the GST regime and EXEMPTED from Income Tax. I imagine that businesses with seasonally cyclical cash-flows (Cafes/Tourism) would be less inclined to dismiss staff off season thereby stabilising employment in their industry and reducing the severity of spending constraints locally.

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1 year ago
Kim
Yes, remove the guess work and stop payment of interest on under/over estimated tax. PAYG Tax paid on actual figures is fairer, measurable and I believe more manageable fiscally and from a compliance perspective. I have many small clients who struggle with the concept of Provisional Tax but understand GST. I think there would be better compliance if they could pay as they go and then adjust at year end for any over/under payment of TAX without penalties in a reasonable timeframe.

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1 year ago
Antoni
I don't have a problem with paying provisional tax. My problem is with the randomness of the guess and the penalties if you get it wrong. It is hard as a small business to get it right if perhaps you get a big payment in Q4 that increases turnover way beyond what was expected. I would be happy if a reasonable method of calculation based on say last years terminal tax (plus perhaps 10% for growth?) was used and if it is wrong, the amount is sorted in final tax.

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1 year ago
David Harris
As soon as more methods are created for dealing with provisional tax, then it complicates the system for taxpayers. Better to have a few easy-to-use methods rather than introducing more.

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1 year ago
Wendy Holden
Pay as you earn would be perfect

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1 year ago
Andrew Hyder
As a contractor, my earnings vary month to month and year to year, so the standard Provisional Tax system doesn't work for me. A PAYE system would work and is something I have communicated to IRD in the past. Fully endorsed as an idea.

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1 year ago
CamR
How about a thumbs up from all those out there who have been crippled by the double-whammy tax and provisional payment you have to make after your first year of business. I personally ended up with a provisional bill that was >100% of my next years' income... on top of the end-of-year tax. 3 years on and I'm still trying to recover. Consequently my advice to anyone looking at starting a new small business with very little capital is DON'T!!! Something HAS to be done about this if NZ wants small businesses to get off the ground. Also, as a self-employed 1-man-band operator, I have no idea what my income will be each month until I reach the end of that month, so how can I predict what tax I need to pay? Having a guess at an amount, paying the provisional, and then correcting the amount and paying/getting a rebate is just a waste of time and great way to generate paperwork. It gets even more complicated when a client doesn't pay an invoice or makes you wait until the following tax year. Provisional tax is a sin. Do away with it.

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1 year ago
Brian Boys
We are a small company of 6 staff. Every month when I pay my GST (yes we pay monthly) I do a profit and loss report based on cash in and cash out of the business - this does not allow for unpaid invoices - a cash basis only. Then I calculate the tax on the profit based on the company tax rate and pay that amount every month with my GST return. What could be simpler that that?

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1 year ago
Euan
It would be simple to pay tax at the company Rate of .28. But that might not be the final rate of tax. If the company profit is allocated to shareholders, then their rate may be only .195

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1 year ago
Steve Collings
I find the series of tax due from January until April [Provisional, Terminal and use of money Interest] a real drain on my business and it is just ahead of our busy import period. There needs to be a better way of smoothing this out. As far as Use of Money Interest goes this needs the threshold raised, unless I pay excessive tax I can't possible allow for all the variables for the year, such as supply of goods which has a huge impact my sales.

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1 year ago
Bryan Fielding
I think that paying Provisional tax monthly/bi-monthly could be a good way forward - it would help smooth cash flow for starters. The system/structure/estimation basis would need to be simple enough that SME's didn't need to employ tax accountants to do the calculation every time a return was required. There would need to be a degree of tolerance at year end once the tax accountants have completed the tax accounts. The process would need to take account of seasonal fluctuations - eg a business may have a substantial seasonal fluctuation where it makes its profit over say a 6 month period and the next 6 months it makes a (smaller) loss..ultimately it makes a profit, but if the business pays provisional tax during its busy months based on its profit during the busy months, will it get a refund for the months it makes a loss..or will the refund accrue until the next time it has Provisional tax to pay...or does the business estimate its tax on the total profit for the year will be 120k and pay 10k per month

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1 year ago
Louisa
I too would rather pay Provisional Tax bi-monthly on actual income earned for the preceding 2 months. As being self-employed, it's impossible to know in advance what my income will be for any period of time. At present, even when I submit a revised estimate the moment I realise that my income is going to be higher than my original estimate, I still get landed with a big penalty.

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1 year ago
Mark Rawstron
I think monthly or bi monthly is good, BUT our business is SEASONAL and we earn the bulk of our cashflow in the summer and have to save each year to survive through winter. For example if we had to pay 20k of GST and 15K of provisional tax (35 k in the year) and that was split into $3000 per month - we would REALLY struggle to pay it in parts oft autumn, winter and spring. Could it be FLEXIBLE for SEASONAL business? For example could we pay $6000 each month from January to March (our summer) and $1890 each month for the rest of the year - that would make it much less of the struggle for us.

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1 year ago
Bryan Fielding
I think that paying Provisional tax monthly/bi-monthly could be a good way forward - it would help smooth cash flow for starters. The system/structure/estimation basis would need to be simple enough that SME's didn't need to employ tax accountants to do the calculation every time a return was required. There would need to be a degree of tolerance at year end once the tax accountants have completed the tax accounts. The process would need to take account of seasonal fluctuations - eg a business may have a substantial seasonal fluctuation where it makes its profit over say a 6 month period and the next 6 months it makes a (smaller) loss..ultimately it makes a profit, but if the business pays provisional tax during its busy months based on its profit during the busy months, will it get a refund for the months it makes a loss..or will the refund accrue until the next time it has Provisional tax to pay...or does the business estimate its tax on the total profit for the year will be 120k and pay 10k per month

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1 year ago
Dan
As a contractor who is s shareholder employee, it would certainly make life easier for me with budgeting and planning if tax was accurately calculated and taken out when the money was earned / paid to me. So a system similar to PAYE would be better I feel.

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1 year ago
Alan Irvine
Provisional Tax - Remove the punitive element in estimating your future liability.

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1 year ago
David Smythe
Essential and overdue. I do GST returns for two small businesses online which is easy and simple. The annual accounts and prov tax are done by our accountant. I hope consideration will be given to allowing provisional tax payments to calculated and made in line with the payer's GST returns, that is, monthly, two monthly etc, and not dogmatically at say, every three or four or six months.

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1 year ago
malcolm wheeler
provisional tax has always been a weird concept to me and my opinion is that it could be rolled up with gst and paid regularly, i.e. at the same time as gst. Provisional tax estimation for the following years profit is illogical and PAYE tax is more logical. Made more ridiculous when the economy is volatile. We get a wide range of profit loss situations during any year. We make good money during our busy season but generally trade at break even or a loss for the rest of the year.

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1 year ago
David O'Donoghue
We used the ratio method and this worked very well. However once our RIT became greater than $150,000 we were forced to change to the estimation option for provisional tax. This is total guesswork, is always wrong and by necessity forces us to be conservative with our forecasts, as "overestimating" ties up valuable cashflow. Therefore we end up paying the exorbitant "use of money interest". Who can predict the exchange rate or the economic situation 12 months ahead? I don't see why there is a limit on the Ratio method and would prefer revert back to this as it was simple, reasonably accurate and any wash-up was minor at Year End.

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1 year ago
Allan Webber
looking at what has been written, it looks like most people are having a problem with estimating their income and therefore either paying too much or too little prov tax. I would like to point out that prov tax is only an estimate of what your tax will be for the year, if you under pay this then you have had the use of the extra income for the duration of the year and this should assist you and your business, therefore at the end of the year you will have to pay penalty interest. If you took the word penalty out of it and call it use of money interest, then this interest become easier to understand. If you are over estimating your prov tax then I think that you should get a better accountant. I would also like to point out that all salary earners pay their tax every time they get paid, and only get a refund that the end of the year if one is owing. Stop the moaning and get some good advice from an accountant. The system works well at the moment and if there are any changes to the system then i would like to see them on an opt in basis, as there are some complicated ownership structures out there.

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1 year ago
Lisa
We have an accountant. Am I to blame him for the fact that my husband's consultancy business made $50,000 less in FY15 than the year before? Am I to blame him for the fact that for three weeks in January our family of 4 couldn't afford to buy food (after making that month's provisional payment -- based on the previous higher rate of earning). We lost weight (and we were already on the skinny side). Perhaps we don't all have the good fortune you do of being able to predict our business' future... or perhaps it's just your accountant's clairvoyance you can thank. Paying tax on money you have not yet earned is criminal. Take a look at what other countries are doing. In Canada provisional for small businesses is recommended but optional... no penalties for adjusting the amounts as you go. By the end of the tax year (beginning a few months later), if you're not square... then the penalties start. No big problems with compliance there... and no families of 4 starving in the tax year because the gov't has grabbed way more than they are entitled to.

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1 year ago
Izabelle Nagel
Exactly my point.We are a family of 6,and we do not get any assistance from anyone because our income is just a bit to much,but when we suddenly lost 50% in 2014,and for 6 months we had to survive on very little and at the end we could,nt pay the huge penalties and provisional tax anyway.Were also a 2 people business at this point.I say let us pay PAYE on what we earn.Were the ones building this economy and sustaining our own families.And lets not even mention ACC.This government should be supporting the local businesses.The other thing is gst.There is hardly anything we are allowed to claim for,but we pay gst on every thing.

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1 year ago
Keith Smith
It sounds like your business is generating enough for you to pay all your taxes and you don't see the problem facing others - so gudonya Allan. However, not all businesses are so lucky - the real problem is that when you first start out in business and sales are fluctuating you just don't have the cashflow to pay the provisional tax bills. Also, provisional tax is based on the PAST not the present or future so if you are now, at this moment, earning less than last year's average then you are not only bringing in less cash but you are required to pay disproportionately high provisional tax. The current system is fundamentally flawed - how can it possibly be fair to pay tax in advance on sales you have not made yet? And what happens if you don't make the level of sales you plan to next year? - The IRD fine you for guessing your expected income wrong AND charge you penalty interest if the sales you make are actually insufficient for you to pay the provisional tax.......................... on the future sales you don't actually know you are going to get.

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1 year ago
Jenny Bridgen
The provisional tax system has some quirks which make it hard. The worst thing is if you're swapping between contract and permanent work within a tax year. You end up paying PAYE AND provisional tax instalments in the same year. You do get a tax refund at the end, but it's hard paying two sets of tax. Generally, I find it hard to understand the provisional tax system because it only kicks in a year after you've started contracting - so you pay nothing for a year and then all of a sudden you have a terminal tax bill and regular provisional tax payments. As a non-accountant, it's tricky keeping the tax years straight. And if your income changes during the tax year, which it often will as a contractor, you can pay over-the-odds.

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1 year ago
NIck220
Improve it by removing it. I liken it to proforma invoicing scam

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1 year ago
nicola
As someone who is new to running a very small sole trader operation, having to pay Provisional Tax (particularly the first time, when I didn't have much in the way of cash reserves) was a nightmare. It's hard to find money to pay your tax in advance when you haven't earned any yet......I'd be really happy to pay as I earn, and can see this being a much fairer system.

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1 year ago
Euan
Provisional Tax is NOT about paying .." tax in advance when you havn't earned any yet." The ignorance around the subject is appalling.

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1 year ago
J Clark
It's easy enough for you to write off as "ignorant" those who find some tax administration an issue, but based on the amount of comments on this forum, it is obvious a lot of small business owners are either confused about Prov. tax, or have a negative opinion of it in regards to running a business. I think the IRD need to be taking note of what business owners are saying here. Provisional tax does not seem to be helping make businesses easier to run - or the IRD have done a poor job making it more understandable for new business start ups. The fact is that the majority of businesses in NZ are small and provisional tax can be a major headache.

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1 year ago
Euan
I agree, J Clark, I could have used the words " confusion " and "misunderstanding" rather than "ignorance" That with IRD charging interest on underpayments, and not chasing up installments missed contributes to a system that is not liked. But I think it could be done better than have the IRD put their hands in your pocket on , perhaps, a monthly basis.

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1 year ago
Gareth Foster
Let's say you made $10k profit last year. Your tax is $2800 and your prov tax would be 3x $980. And let's say August comes around and you haven't made any money (profit). Prov tax to be is still $980. That's all well and good if you don't make any profit by April. But.. Let's say you clear $20k profit by the following April. You will be penalised on not paying that instalment in August (when you didn't have profit / spare cash). So it seems it is possible to pay tax in advance on money you haven't earned. Or am I being ignorant?

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1 year ago
Euan
Well, Gareth Foster, if you havn't made any "profit" between April and August, then i wonder if you have a sustainable business. That's nearly half the year. What would you be living on.? If you are drawing funds from other sources to live on, then you might have to do the same to pay the prov. tax. I take your point. But the new system proposed can still only be an estimate made before the correct calculation of "profit" is made at year end.I personally would rather the IRD kept their hands out of my pocket until the correct figure was known , and work with the existing system.

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1 year ago
Keith Smith
Actually - I think you will find that is exactly what it is Euan. Let me spell it out for you. If , in 2014 you earned $100,000 the IRD would expect you to pay provisional tax throughout 2015 on $100,000 (plus 5% incidentally) regardless of whether you are going to go on and actually earn $100,000 or not. The IRD think that this is OK because at the end of 2015 you can claim any overpayment back. What they don't realise is (because none of them have actually tried to operate a small business and pay provisional tax themselves) is that if you DON'T earn $100,000 - say you only earn $20,000 then you are still expected to PAY the provisional tax on the $100,000 out of what you are earning NOW. Paying tax on $100,000 out of actual earnings of $20,000 does not compute! - Hence, in reality, you are being taxed on $80,000 worth of sales you don't actually make. Sure you can get it back later but that does not help the cashflow NOW. And to rub salt into the wounds the IRD fine you and charge you penalty interest if you can't pay. You basically have to do it this way because if you estimate your future income instead then they fine you and charge you even more for guessing wrong.

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1 year ago
Euan
Thank you Keith for this, but let me spell out for you what the options are. Instead of the standard option you can estimate and pay on that basis. You can review your estimate from time to time, and make payments on account based on actual current earnings.

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1 year ago
Kelvin
Euan, can I respectfully suggest that you may not know as much about this topic as you think. As I and others have previously stated re-estimating only works to a point. The point has been made that, if your estimate increases after August by more than $2500 you will get penalties. I don't understand how you don't get this. The other comment I would make is that you are clearly against any changes to the system that would see more regular/earlier payments. While I understand the point about why anyone would want to pay earlier, I'm not sure that continuing to make this point is that useful. Other people/businesses are clearly struggling with the lumpiness of this. If the system was easier to use and didn't require so much guess work about what the future is going to look like (particularly for those starting out) and penalties for when things change outside our control then maybe the payment date issue may be less of an issue

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1 year ago
Stephen Morrish
Provisional tax should be scrapped. Small and medium size businesses could run much smoother and even increase the employment levels if their cash flow was not interrupted by provisional tax. Making the tax payment more like an individuals monthly PAYE would be a much better and more accurate method of collecting the required tax. There are a lot of businesses in NZ that are very seasonal when it comes to generating revenue. Therefore paying your taxes after you have received your income is a much fairer way of Government dealing with business.

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1 year ago
Izabelle Nagel
Its unbelievable how many small businesses like ours is struggling like us with the provisional tax.Its killing us.And were paying penalties because we cant make the payments.We lost a huge contract last year and simply did not have the money to pay our provisional tax.Made endless phonecalls to try and sort it but I ended up getting frustrated and our accountant had to sort it out.No were paying them extra and were paying late fee penalties.Its not fair.I say let us pay PAYE like any other person.

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1 year ago
Phil Caffyn
Two aspects of Prov Tax are critical... - Basing this years tax on last years earnings is really difficult for a business like mine where the income varies from year to year. - Having to pay tax on earnings that haven't even been earned yet is really crushing. I'm 2 weeks into the 15/16 year and already thinking what income needs to be put aside for Prov Tax. Give us a break !!! Tax us on what we've earned after we've earned it (or at least as we earn it, like PAYE).

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1 year ago
Tony Cox
Below Mark Berghan makes a very important point about modern accounting packages. They are so much more powerful than they were 10 years ago ... we have the computational power to make just about any system work. With cloud based systems (Xero being the main one) our accountants can confirm the numbers are correct before anything's formally submitted to IRD. However, doing a full "close off" every second month, I feel, would be too much work. A full stock take every 60 daze, depreciation and then having to check the accountant's done his bit right multiple times each year ... no thanks. (At least the accountants increased fees would reduce our tax liability!) I think that "provisional close offs", that exclude stock change, depreciation and the like, may work ... with the accountant left to do the EOY accounts and balance out the numbers. Any PAYE-PT system needs to include some allowance for fluctuations, especially in the first few years while we (that's Businesses and IRD) are coming to grips with it all. Our business is seasonal - winter and spring are horrible for our cashflow ... August is a horrible time to pay Provisional Tax. (I really dislike the August payment ... having to pay tax while we're losing money, and while we're trying to use the money we have to gear up for Christmas.) If a PAYE-PT system is adopted would we get Tax credits during the periods in which we made a loss? A PAYE-PT system would seem to penalise business growth less than the current system does ... there'd be no "Sorry your Sales were too much higher than you projected, you didn't pay enough Provisional Tax ... but we're only going to penalise you $250!" Overall - give the power to the Business Owners. Allow us the option to pay our PT in small instalments, or to keep using the current system, or to pay it all in one lump sum after our EOY accounts have been filed.

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1 year ago
Jess
The idea of paying provisional tax on a monthly basis, would this frequency of payment be optional? Or is this proposal being assumed on the basis of a blanket ruling for all who pay Prov tax? Whilst some businesses or sole traders may benefit from paying their prov tax on a more frequent basis for cash flow or alternate reasons - others I'm sure would have no interest in altering the frequency or method from how it is now. As such would only think this would be received well if changing the frequency in how often it is paid was voluntary/optional

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1 year ago
J Clark
As a small business owner (1 person) I sometimes find provisional tax to be a huge burden. My earnings can fluctuate greatly from one year to the next. Going into a poor earnings period after a good one often means I have a very large provisional bill, but with lesser earnings to compensate. Also, due to the nature of the industry I work in, it can be very difficult to forecast ahead what income will be and assessing EOY income can easily result in calculations that are around 15-20% off. I personally don't think provisional tax is of any benefit to business, only to the govt coffers as they get a tax payment ahead of business income actually earned. I would like to see provisional tax removed for businesses under a certain size.

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1 year ago
Gareth Foster
That's it! Prov tax shouldn't apply until your turn over is $1M+. Just let us file it yearly. And give us 6 months to pay.

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1 year ago
Izabelle Nagel
I agree!We don't even earn 20 % of that and when we lost a huge contract last year the provisional tax literally crushed us.And no one understands that when you phone the IRD and state your problem.You rather get threatened and asked if you don't have a creditcard or make a loan!

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1 year ago
Tony W
I would definitely like to see the provisional tax change to pay as you earn, no surprises this way and would be far more accurate and easier to manage.

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1 year ago
warren
Prov Tax could be like GST. Every three months Income calculated, tax tables, pay. Simple!

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1 year ago
Kenneth Sloss
What is wrong with the present situation of provisional tax? It is so simple. A PAYE system will increase compliance time and cost as interaction with the IRD will have to be more frequent. Also businesses may have to upgrade their accounting software and internet connection. Going by some of the comments, people seem to think that a PAYE system will improve their cash flow. Surely that is not going to be the case, as they will have to make several tax payments throughout the year, rather than just 2. A PAYE system will largely be for the benefit of the IRD, not the taxpayer.

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1 year ago
Gordon Bishop
I would like to see provisional tax payments based on the previous months profit. Most businesses carry out monthly P&L and it is a simple matter to estimate the provisional tax based on this, rather than a figure based on previous years profit and which may be well out of date. The existing GST/Provisional tax form already allows for this and is a simple change from the current estimations regime.

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1 year ago
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